Contradicting info on flooring options

[maxrabbit]

I have been researching products/options for finishing our basement. The house is 6 years old and even through some of the nasty rains we have had in recent years we have not had water in the basement. It is humid so we run a dehumidifier and empty the small tank daily in the summer.

I have also taped down a square of plastic to see if water collects under it as another test. It has almost been 24 hours and still no visible condensation on the underside of the plastic.

We have been told that wood laminate if fine for the basement and we have heard laminate should never be used in a basement.

We have heard that you must install a vapor barrier and also that you should never install a vapor barrier because the foundation needs to "breathe".

We have heard sealers are a good idea on the walls and floors, only on the walls, and not at all.

Can you offer your "truth" on the matters listed above? Will a vapor barrier trap water next to the foundation and cause problems down the road? Should we finish sealing it (only 1/4 done now)? Can we install wood laminate or not? Is there a better option rather than carpet? Vinyl? vinyl tile? Rolled laminate?

Thanks for any insights you can offer.

[stevea]

At Pioneer Basement we are in the business of helping people do the right thing for their family and foundation. It is our passion so I will be happy to tell you the truth.

1) All basements are prone to moisture and /or water problems. During my 28 year career as a basement expert (with over 30,000 installed jobs) I have heard people say they have a dry basement, but keep this thought in your mind Pioneer does about 2100 jobs a year of which 700 are finished. Those 700 people who finished their basements thought it was dry.

2) I believe that everyone considering finishing a basement should have a subfloor drainage system installed along with a sump and battery back up pump. All wall cracks should be sealed.

3) Wall vapor barriers are very important to install on the basement walls before one finishes off the space. Why you ask? Without a vapor barrier on the basement walls your finished basement would be prone to future wall leaks, your dehumidifier would need to work more and cost more to run because it would be pulling moisture right thru those concrete walls.

4) Drainage systems today should be closed systems without an open channel. Why? Because of 4 major reasons 1) radon, 2) bugs coming up from under the basement slab 3) Ground humidity 4) iron bacteria colonies will flourish with an open system.

5) As far as wood flooring - I do not recommend any organic materials be used in basement construction. Laminate flooring can be used - just not "wood" laminate. I recommend a product called WarmShield be used under laminate flooring. It is installed right over the concrete floor. You can get this sub-flooring from www.GrateProducts.com

6) Vapor Barriers will not trap moisture behind them because any moisture will travel downward and drain into the drainage system below the floor. You won't need to worry about mold behind the vapor barrier if it is completely sealed at the top of the wall. Mold needs a food source - so unless you have walls with alot of dust or organic material on them - it won't be an ideal place for them to live.

7) Finally, I am impressed with a product called FreeStyle Flooring which is made of 78% recycled materials and interlocks. This product is great because it is installed right over the concrete floor (no glue) as it is a floating floor. It comes in styles like bamboo, cork, slate and earth tones. Pioneer Basement installs these floors in our service market. If you are interested email me at stevea@pioneerbasement.com for further info on purchasing this flooring product.

Hope this helps Steve A

[taco]

Steve,

For those of us who do have the "Waterguard" system, what do you recommend to use to keep radon, bugs etc. out of the "open drainage system" and where can I buy it?

Thanks

[martini]

On item 4, you state the following:

4) Drainage systems today should be closed systems without an open channel. Why? Because of 4 major reasons 1) radon, 2) bugs coming up from under the basement slab 3) Ground humidity 4) iron bacteria colonies will flourish with an open system.


This is very concerning (and upsetting) to me since I had a perimeter drain installed by Pioneer that IS an open system with an open channel and I have had to installed a radon mitigation system due to this and I do get insects coming in from the channel. My question to you is what should I do now that you do not recommend an open system and how have you guys been correcting this issue for your customers?

[stevea]

Dear Taco and Martini:

Pioneer Basement was installing what we considered to be the best system at the time. Today there are many companies out there that will still install open back systems. (In fact the majority of waterproofing companies at this time still install "open systems")

Our customers come first - so last year after much thought we at Pioneer basement decide to no longer offer an open system. Just like Bill Gates did with Microsoft - we offer upgrades.

Those of Pioneer Basement customers who have an open back system can now have us install our Flexi-Flange and one of our Wall vapor barriers (TuffShield, HD TuffShield, CrawlShield)

You may call our office and request a project manager visit your home and review your present Pioneer system and show you all our options.

Those of our customers who have had this done have remarked that they feel a difference. It will also help you lower your heating and air conditioning costs. Your dehumidifier will also be more effective since it will no longer pull moisture thru the basement walls.

Just like our back up pumping system is an option that some do not buy at first, later they do. Our back up pumps are an upgrade I highly recommend.

Finally, Pioneer Basement offers and installs the Santa Fe Air System which will filter and dehumidify your basement space, making your whole house feel and smell better.

We are happy to offer these upgrades at a special price for our loyal existing customers.

Thanks for visiting our forum. steve a

[martini]

Steve, I had a Pioneer perimeter drainage system installed a few years back which has an open channel around the foundation. This contradicts what you mention in section 4 about not having an open channel. Since having this system installed, I've had to install a radon mitigation system, I have high levels of humidity so my dehumidifier is running all the time, and I'm frequently killing bugs that are making it up through the channel. This system has cost me quite a bit of incremental money (radon mitigation, electricity, etc). My questions to you is what are you doing for your customers who have an open system and really should/want convert it a closed system, and who's paying for this. I am very disappointed that I have a open system and am reading your post that says the system should be closed. Please advise.

[stevea]

Dear Martini,

At the time Pioneer installed your system we were following the industry standard, in fact most other waterproofing contractors STILL put in open backed systems. Pioneer Basement has always been about doing what is right for the customer. Pioneer Basement will upgrade your existing system by installing a wall vapor barrier that will be sealed at the top and bottom.

We are giving our Pioneer Basement customers a special upgrade price to add the wall vapor barrier and Flexi-Flange. Please call our office and ask to speak to Mike O our Production Manager about the details.

Over the last 25 years Pioneer has constantly made improvements to our systems. We feel that it is important to set the lead in our industry to do the right thing for people. It is our hope to change our industry's way of installing drainage systems in basements.

Thank you for posting and being a loyal customer of Pioneer Basement.

[JacobPM]

if you're worried about #6, before having waterproofing done, brush the walls down. That way you can clear away any loose plaster or bubbling paint before we put up the vapor barrier.

[JacobPM]

Martini: " I had a perimeter drainage system installed a few years back which has an open channel around the foundation. This contradicts what you mention in section 4 about not having an open channel. Since having this system installed, I've had to install a radon mitigation system, I have high levels of humidity so my dehumidifier is running all the time, and I'm frequently killing bugs that are making it up through the channel. This system has cost me quite a bit of incremental money (radon mitigation, electricity, etc). My questions to you is what are you doing for your customers who have an open system and really should/want convert it a closed system, and who's paying for this. I am very disappointed that I have a open system and am reading your post that says the system should be closed. Please advise."

I'm glad you've said this.
1.) it proves that open back systems are a bad idea
2.) it shows that moving to a closed system is and was the right thing to do at the time.

I'm glad that we've fixed your issues.